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Elves and the Atomic Bomb 
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Admin Note: This topic was absurd from the start. We tried to be polite and have polite discussion in spite of the ridiculous premise. We tried to explain that we take discussions seriously and that we don't allow trolls, spam, fluff, fantasy or other exaggerated claims. That while we may be open-minded, we're not so much that we let our brains fall out of our heads.

Clearly this thread has given the indication that we somehow agreed with the original poster or that we supported this kind of idea as true. In fact, we unanimously stated it wasn't really even possible.

This topic is being closed and retired because it gives entirely the wrong message about Embracing Mystery and has proved to be a large disruption to the peaceable conversations we encourage.




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A while back I was watching a documentary on the Manhattan Project.
So at one point They were showing Photographs of those people who were instrumental in the development of the Atomic bomb. They Showed some scenes with J. Robert Oppenheimer the " father of the Bomb" and I suddenly had the certainty that this man was not a human , he was an Elf. Watching carefully It seemed that quite a few of the major contributors to the project were otherkin, mostly elves. This was at first rather a puzzle. Why would elves unleash such destructive power Of course then who else could, Surely this awesome power is well within the capabilities & realm of Elven magick. I discussed this a bit with some folks on the Elfkind Digest and they thought that it made sense. I'm inclined to focus on the creative artistic and emotional sensitivities of Elvin but history and legend has also indicated a great and powerful warrior tradition with many incidences of battle and conflict.
so what do you guys think Is this something Elves would do? Did they? were they the real makers of the first Atomic bomb? Or have I just been sniffing too much gingerbread?


Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:50 pm
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What I'm not understanding is how you've determined them to be elves using truly ancient film footage. O_o


Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:12 pm
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t was a recognition of an energy signature. A realization. Sometimes usually in regard to much more mundane subjects I just get details of the emotions of the actors in a film etc.. I can often sense when someone is not telling the truth on the news that kind of thing. I was really startled by it as it did not seem probable and was not an idea that would ususlly have come to me on its own.
I do't know that it is a fact. I know I have that knowing intuitively.
It reads valid to me at this time that many of those shown in that film were otherkin. Reality shifts and everyone has their own. I wouldn't go up to Homeland Security and tell them that the Atom bomb was created by elves.
But here I thought to see what your opinion of this possibility might be.


Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:40 pm
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Yeah... I'm wondering that, too. >o_O<

How have you come to that conclusion exactly? Cause I definately don't see how you could tell that those guys were 'elves' from just watching a bit of footage...

Edit: Whooopsie. Posted too late, I guess.

But anyhow.

But reading energy signatures from film footage? Especially film footage from several decades ago...?

I'm not sure exactly how scientific elven people are... or whether or not how much elven people would have desired to construct such a monstrosity. I'm knowledgable of the fact that they were great warriors... and it might make a little sense that they might think of constructing such a thing to get rid of thier enemies... but as for the aftereffects of using such a thing... not to mention the fact that these things would kill as many innocents as enemies in the course of using such a thing... I don't see how they would come to think that the atom bomb was a totally useful tool.

In the long run, I'd think they'd at least regret it. And ultimately wished they'd never've constructed such a thing. If it were true, even. But I'm no elf. And I certainly don't see the whole relation to elves and the creators of the atom bomb. And what would have them being elves have whatever to do with what they've created... as creating an atom bomb is still quite scientific... and even though science has its own place in magick, it's like saying that the bacon and eggs I made this morning is extra-interesting, cause they were made by a person who's spiritually not human. :P

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:42 pm
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Eh.. I can understand people able to read something off of people on film, but eh.. this seems a bit silly to me. Elven magick to make the atom bomb?

No offense, but I think you've built things up way too much in your mind. Perhaps they might have been otherkin, perhaps maybe even "elves" but that doesn't mean it is some evil elven plot of some sort. Doesn't even mean they were in touch with their otherkinism.

Another flaw in your post is saying he is not human. We are all human. Spiritually is where the differences can be found. And why be so down on humans? We're pretty destructive in our own right.

One last thing, heck.. if you were sensing something from the film, I'd think energy could be thrown off by the things they were working on, so could confuse the senses.


Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:59 pm
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Humble said it better than I could.

Thanks, Humble. :-D

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:08 pm
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You're welcome and I didn't see your edit when I posted. Mmmm.. bacon and eggs made Genuu style. Sounds yummy, LOL.


Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:15 pm
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Well strange As it may seem There is a possibility that the Atom Bomb might have actually been a Good thing. In theory anyway, a lot more people could have died in Hand to hand combat or by suicide in a land war on Japan, had the war not been ended so Abuptly.

It is also possible that the threat of the bomb prevented many subsequent wars and deaths on this Planet. To me Splitting the Atom does seem quite congruent with magick and Elemental power and thepossible skillsets of Elven beings..
Film often records and retains the imprints of energy and auras just as land and objects in general retain etheric imprints of what has occured around them. Time and age of materials does not normaly have much relevance Unless many different beings have subsequentally added energy and speculation. That seems unlikely in this case though as it is probably not the kind of thing that would be speculated on.
I don't know that I picked this up from the film as such. I did not say nor do I think that there is or was anykind of Evil plot and did not mean to defame Elves or Humans.
So you don't think it likely? I'd be perfectly happy for that idea to simply have been an unusual daydream.

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:16 pm
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Quote:
I wouldn't go up to Homeland Security and tell them that the Atom bomb was created by elves.

I took this line like you'd be thinking there'd be some sort of evil plot, lol. Sorry.

I do agree with you, about being able to pick things up from the film, but it is an old film. It could have very easily have come in contact with some forms of radiation, considering they were working on an atom bomb. So those things could have altered the energy or confused your senses in picking up from it.

I would disagree that splitting the atom is just a elven skill set though. Totally something possible a human can do. The human mind can do wonderous things if worked.


Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:43 pm
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My spouse retired from Homeland Security a couple of years back
He'd been In the Federal Protective Service ( a really obscure Federal Police agency) but it was absorbed into HS when that was formed. So I may not have the same attitude about HS as others do. Though if HS had to defend Us from a real "Evil Atomic Threat " from Elves, I'd get out the marshmallows, because we'd be toast.
I would tend to think that any otherkin involved with the manhattan Project would probably not be aware of their 'Kinness'.


Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:48 pm
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A major part of my hesitency is that I've had 3 different people tell me I'm an elf. I'm certainly not an elf. And I look at pictures of myself and I see nothing that says "otherkin". I don't look "otherworldly" or anything like that. I look, at most, like an scottish countryside peasant. -_-;


Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:51 am
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I think the bottom line here is that it's pretty unlikely any of the guys working on the project were Elves. If otherkin at all. And even if you did recieve some sort of funny 'energy signature' reading from the film, I do agree that the film had been shot around radioactive materials... that the energy of it was probably skewered, or offset in some way. I definately agree to that. But I'd still say it's pretty unlikely, unless any of the said people themselves believed that they were spiritually kin.

Even at that, I question one's integrity to tell exactly what sort of kin another is. And that goes for everyone. Me, Shiari, Humble... everyone. Which also adds to my hesitency, just as Shiari said. From my experience, I find that you can tell when someone is 'different' by reading thier energy signature. Though I sure as hell can't tell 'what' they are, I don't ever dare tell someone they're 'this' or 'that', whether I can feel it or not. I mean, sure. They might've felt different. But how do you know they were elves? ... Why not something else? Why specifically 'elves'?

At the drop of a hat, people will proclaim others to be elves, demons, angels, vampires, or other popular, mainstream things. Popular, mainstream things especially. And a lot of the time, not anything else... and they won't even give the individual they are speaking to a moment in which to figure out for themselves what they are. Which totally defeats the whole concept of otherkin being a spiritual discovery of one's innermost self, soul, and being. Not to mention the fact that it will muck up thier personal development. I've had people call me things too, and even though it was only once or twice, no one has ever been right on the matter. So I tend to take people who 'know' what sort of 'kin' others are with a grain of salt. Or less than.

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Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:06 am
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It was what I "got" and was quite startled at the strong impression. It is interesting that here you all seem quite certain that at best this is nonsense and in the one other place I mentioned it the general response was more like " sure everyone knows that." I was just curious what folks would think of the possibility. it was something on the History Channel. Two of my three children and my grandchild have always identified as elfkin too so that is part of why the resonance seemed so distinct. I appreciate and respect your opinions. Thank you


Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:44 am
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It's more like, we've seen lots of people claiming to be able to tell kin-types who have then proceeded to get our kin-types wrong. And this has happened to a great many people a great many times, just like all the "I'm growing physical wings!" peoples who then never provide back-up proof. After a while, you are only willing to give the benefit of the doubt if they have proper reasons to back up such an assertion.

So we see a claim of knowing a kin-type from footage that is nearly 70 years old, footage which is just film and by all rights shouldn't hold actual spiritual energy signitures unless the people are *haunting* the piece of footage. And we look back at all those other claims, note that this is more 'outlandish' than usual, and so view it with a jaded eye.

If you could describe to us just *how* you get a spiritual signiture off of *footage* that is *that* old, we might be better able to understand the rest of it.


Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:56 am
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It was an impression, energy pick up as info I did not say that It was correct. I have no idea if It was right or not even though it read as true to my intuition at the time. That is why I asked what you all thought.

I would not attempt to guess what kind of Kin someone is. Occasionaly I will get a vision or an audio message about something and have been able to confirm some of these and unable to confirm others and some have been definitely wrong. I am very aware of possibilities of energy shifting and multidimensional reality streams and things like that too.

The film itself really was not where the message /impression came from. Spiritual energy and information is everywhere in the akasha / Kamala Aether, whatever you call it. While that was what came through as I watched the documentary. I have not had recent experiences of "Mischevious spirit " stuff but suppose it could have been something like that. Perhaps it was a telepathic pick up of an unborn fantasy novel or something. Its not something I would go around talking about to the general populace. Actually I'm a lot more happy and comfortable to hear that you don't think this has any validity than I was with when the other folks acted like it was a fact.


Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:08 am
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Some people are rather surprised, and sometimes offset, by the fact that we are, as a board, a lot more skeptical than 98% of the other Otherkin/Psychic/Paranormal/Spiritual/etc-type boards that are out there. As in, while most boards will believe pretty much anything... we believe in what we feel is valid, in the course of physical reality (science), what we have personally experienced (reality, spirituality, or otherwise), and the fact that imaginations (dispite how wonderful they may be) can still run rampant, in light of spiritual and paranormal phenomena.

Our motto here is, without a doubt:

Be open minded. But not so much that your brains fall out.

Unfortunately, in the case of most boards, groups, and things, especially when relating back to something like Otherkin, which is a concept overrun by poseurs, teenagers who want attention, and those who can't tell paranormal phenomena from the cheese sandwich they ate this morning, they are mostly over-fluffified. Everyone's all 'hugs and snuggles!' and everyone seems to forget the fact that, dispite the fact that in being Otherkin you are still physically human, however it is your soul looks. And then you bring up a subject like that, and there's no questioning...? I certainly question the validity of thier answers. And I certainly question whether or not they specifically know that such a thing is 'fact'.

That's why I don't hang around anywhere else. I've tried other boards... new boards, just out of the woodwork... and I've seen them turn into fluff-infested cesspools of misinformation and scatterbrained knowledge, where nearly all the members are thirteen years old, and anyone over twenty (or anyone with experience) won't even touch the 'reply' button anymore... because there's just no use.

Sure, I can accept the fact that it's possible. Nothing's 'impossible'. But unless I feel some sort of credibility towards it (and I'm sure others can agree), I take it as fiction until proven otherwise... or until I have a personal experience that will change my mind. Just like any regularly skeptical individual.

From experience, I also find that gathering any sort of information from the Akashic records is somewhat of a hassle, and rather difficult to do. Sure, pulling stuff out of one's subconcious is easy enough. But the Akashic records is a different story. From my experience anyways. Your milage may vary.

Although, the whole idea of elvish individuals being the ones who constructed the atomic weapon would make a fantastic novel. I'd read it.

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Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:25 am
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Ok.

*Stands on her soap box* I am a tabby cat, Humble is a dragonfly, Shiari is a magpie, and Khyle, well, you're a long haired shaggy dog!

Now for my point before you get all freaky on me. Does what I just said affect what you believe you are? Does my telling you that Khyle is a shaggy dog, Shiari is a magpie and Humble is a dragon fly mean anything other than I'm being opinionated? No. Because you're all what you are because that's what you believe and experience in this life.

This person, skygreen, has suggested, not even in a particularly forceful manner that *maybe* an otherkin race, i.e. elves, might have had something to do with the development of the atomic bomb. Now, personally this seems really unlikely to me, but, I wasn't there, I've never met any of those who made the atomic bomb. What does it matter? Why are people taking this idea so seriously and personally? She (he?) said that this was something they felt, something that hit them while they were watching an old tv program. They weren't saying bow down I know everything it was the elves fault we have atomic bombs!

All she/he said was hey, look what I experienced:

Quote:
A while back I was watching a documentary on the Manhattan Project.
So at one point They were showing Photographs of those people who were instrumental in the development of the Atomic bomb. They Showed some scenes with J. Robert Oppenheimer the " father of the Bomb" and I suddenly had the certainty that this man was not a human , he was an Elf.


Then she/he said I felt this strong enough for it to shock me a bit:

Quote:
I was really startled by it as it did not seem probable and was not an idea that would ususlly have come to me on its own.



And What do you think of this possible idea:

Quote:
Why would elves unleash such destructive power Of course then who else could, Surely this awesome power is well within the capabilities & realm of Elven magick. I discussed this a bit with some folks on the Elfkind Digest and they thought that it made sense

so what do you guys think Is this something Elves would do? Did they? were they the real makers of the first Atomic bomb? Or have I just been sniffing too much gingerbread?


At no point did skygreen claim that she/he was able to point out everyone's kin and be a hundred percent right, they made no sweeping statements, no statements that this idea was fact, merely a post asking about the posibility, just about the idea, and yet you seem focused specifically Khyle and Shiari, on ripping this persons idea into little shreds for no reason other than the problems you've had in the past with people who claim to sense people's kin who've been wrong. How do you know for certain that this person is wrong? Where are your facts, you justifications for disagreement? Where did she/he say that they thought they were unequivicably right? It was a discussion about the possibility, not a statement of fact.

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That's why I don't hang around anywhere else. I've tried other boards... new boards, just out of the woodwork... and I've seen them turn into fluff-infested cesspools of misinformation and scatterbrained knowledge, where nearly all the members are thirteen years old, and anyone over twenty (or anyone with experience) won't even touch the 'reply' button anymore... because there's just no use.


Not every place is like this Khyle, if you stop looking you may never find others, and insted be a gummy old Kaa, still hanging out here with no other experiences of other people and view points, your mind will narrow to nothing and even another Kaa Genuu will seem too fantastical to you to experience and learn from. This is one of the reasons I originally left EM because of all the trolls and idiots, but finding my own place somewhere else enabled me to come back and notice that EM is a little less troll infected than it was when I left. In my own searches I did find that there were idiot fluffy forums out there, in fact I can name two off the top of my head without researching, but you know what I learnt from visiting those places? I learnt to appreciate what I already had, and strangely enough be a little more tolerant of newbies who I'd have previously labeled as a troll. Someone suggesting the possibility that elves may have contributed to the development of the atomic bomb is nothing compared to the 10 foot demon kin who can kill you halfway across the world with a thought, or the vampire who's been alive for ten thousand years.

*Gets off soap box*

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Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:01 pm
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*reads back* Ah, there was a skipping of a word on my part. I read Skygreen's second post as "I know that it is a fact..." And that was when my mind went "uh-hunh....."

However, on to the rest of it.

I started off wondering *how* skygreen came to this conclusion. My purpose, in later posts, was to hopefully show the need for caution and examination of radical ideas. And the idea that one can sense not only that someone is otherkin, but what *type*, from footage nigh on 70 years old is quite radical. Sky asked if we thought she had been sniffing too much gingerbread. Khyle and I went about it in our separate fashions to say that "Probably, yes you have." Sky may be right, but odds are not. Specifically for the reasons I mentioned. Age. The fact that it is a spiritual signature and one that shouldn't be able to be caught on film unless either purposefully projected (skeptical there too) or the film was haunted. And then only if they also simultaneously haunted each television.

To then lead into this being of such narrow mind-set that khyle would consider his own kin-type to be fluffy is beyond insulting. Have I encountered another shinoar? Yes. Am I vaguely skeptical of their claim? A little. But hell, I'm skeptical that the whole frickin' world exists. It keeps me from being the fluffy angsty brat of doom I once was. But I talked with this other shinoar and we compared some notes and we determined that if he was a shinoar, he lived probably a few centuries after I did because the shinoar had gotten the great idea that throwing a pointy-ish stick at things can kill things really well if you throw from a dive. The most my shinoar did was hurl rocks at things.

And yet oddly enough, I'm like khyle. This place keeps me sane in a sea of fluff. I use this forum, where I have a 0.1% tolerance for fluff, to help me deal with the masses of fluff that I encounter in my dragon forums on a regular basis.

However, did I view this post as fluff? No. I saw something that I reasonably doubted, expressed doubt about the weakest part of the partial claim, and awaited clarification. This then led to a slightly rambled slightly off-topic explaination, with examples, of why we doubted. This does not mean we will become so narrow in our acceptance that we will accept nothing. It means we like claims to be *backed up* with something more than "I sensed it."


Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:37 pm
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As a general rule, I'm not much for posting - mostly because I tend to leave the spiritual side of things to the experts, so I only comment if I feel I have something to contribute, or if I feel something is gravely out of place. I choose the latter, in this case, prompting a query into where one would see this topic as becoming personal, when all I see occuring is a questioning of the line of thought - asking for explanation of why one saw something as such, and clarification as to how it was so, as well as offering rebuttle as to how one can miscast what they feel of another persons energy, as a result of their own experiences of this. On these bases, I don't feel any personal ground was being pressed or attacked.

On the other hand, I see some manner of personal assault. Silver, you suggested, in not so many words, that people here are narrow minded, and specifically singled out Khyle in the process. The necessity of this seems completely absent to me, much less the audacity to suggest that you know what Khyle is and will become, and what his path should be. Whether intended to or not, your words are the sort that draw personal pain from the recipient, particularly in this case - you KNOW Khyle would give dearly to know the presence of another genuu. To suggest otherwise, to suggest that Khyle would be nothing but a pessimist that would grow to be, more or less, 'a lonely old hag', and that Khyle is narrow minded, is nothing be scathing words, arrogantly proclaiming your own superior overview of matters while casting down another. And in reguards to other forums, speaking as an outsider who so rarely gets involved with the nitty gritty and the fluff... yes, as a matter of fact, most of them ARE rather fluff embracing. The fact of the matter is the people here believe in the integrity and fight for it - and if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. And for that, I am proud of this forum and it's inhabitants, even in light of how I am mostly lurker, and comparatively inactive. That it embraces the strange and unusual, but rather then giving every emo with a need to feel a special pat on the back, it reminds us to question ourselves, and each other, in a logical manner. To develop, grow, and achieve a higher level of thinking, not out of superiority - which is but a pathetic illusion of power - but for the advancement of our collective knowledge. We're not here to 'justify' ourselves; we're not here just to confirm we're not crazy (though it helps. :P); we're not even here just to find friends and like minded individuals, at least not exclusively. In the end, this forum exists, I feel, above all, to provide us with a means to analyse, understand, enrich, and learn; to expand upon what we know, and to have that library of knowledge there, if one so chooses to tap it with an open mind, and someday, perhaps contribute themselves.

I see it as such, because despite my own beliefs, my mind and way of thinking have always had a strong tendancy to be rooted in logic and so-called common sense. But it is in this that I seem to vary to a degree - for in my observations, I see that logic and reason apply even to the supernatural and fantastic. Astral babies, for instance - highly illogical and unreasonable, due to the very NATURE of the astral. And yet when one speaks truthfully and thoughtfully of their experiences, what they believe of the natures of energies, and of their knowledge of a past life, when they truely devote themselves to making sense of it all, I SEE the logic in it, and that is how I know it may be true. Not something one often associates with one who would consider these topics, perhaps? Maybe, or perhaps not. But it's what I see. And I simply don't see the logic of saying such a thing of Khyle within the bounds of this topic. While accusing others of being personal on this matter, is this now what your own statement has, in itself, wrought?

~Thomas

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Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:25 am
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skygreen wrote:
I would tend to think that any otherkin involved with the manhattan Project would probably not be aware of their 'Kinness'.


What would make you think that? I'm curious.

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Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:41 pm
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